FEP52 Myth, Magic, and Mystery of the Artemesias
Show Notes:
Join us in an enchanting exploration of the Artemisia plants—Mugworts, Wormwoods, and Sagebrushes—as we share stories and experiences of working with the flower essences, herbal preparations, and strong energies of this unique subset of the Aster family. 🌙🌿🧙♀️💚🧚✨
Audio:
Video:
Flower Essences discussed during the show:
- Mugwort (California) – FES
- European Mugwort
- Wormwood
- Mountain Wormwood – Alaskan Essences
- California Sagebrush
- Sagebrush – FES
- Artemisia – Flora of Asia
- Mugwort Moon Magic – FES
- Mugwort Oil – Wiseflower Wellness
Resources:
The Northern Shamanic Herbal by Raven Kaldera
Show Transcript
Hi, flower lovers. Today, Ro and I are going to be talking about some good friends of ours, the Artemisia family. And these are plants that are commonly called Mugwort, sometimes Sagebrush. It’s a pretty diverse family that’s been used for a really long time in herbal medicine, both Western and Eastern. And we like to explore the possibilities of all the different essences that are made from these plants and what sorts of healing gifts they bring. We are recording today on a moon Day, which is perfect for talking about the goddess Artemis. Hey, Ro.
Rochana Felde: [00:01:22] Hello. So happy to be talking about this genus of plants.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:01:27] Yeah. It’s been part of the preparation that I’ve been doing with Ruth Toledo Altschuler when we were doing our botanical families in flower essence therapy, and we’ve been talking about the Aster family, the Asteraceae, and Mugworts are, Artemisias are one of these Asteraceae plants. Asteraceae is a gigantic family, something like 25,000 species, and one of its little family members is the Artemisia. So you might know the Asteraceae as being like sunflowers and Echinacea. It’s a pretty broad family. And even though Artemisia does not have a wildly showy flower, like something like a sunflower, it is still in the same family. So we thought we’d really specialize on this today and go deep into the topic because I know that it is one of your favorite plants.
Rochana Felde: [00:02:27] Yeah, I’ve always had this attraction to Mugwort. I’m not sure when it started or why. I think just ever since first hearing the name Mugwort, something about it sort of grabbed me before I even ever met the plant. And then I started working with it more when I was in the Shamanic Plant Spirit Apprenticeship Program, I think back in 2016. And we did a weekend communing with Mugwort and its various– California mugwort, European Mugwort, so they’re very similar. In fact, I believe there’s Mugwort, it’s native to every continent on the planet. So there are so many species of it. And it’s everywhere that there’s sort of ancient myths or legends, there’s some sort of Mugwort myth in there or something that speaks to how long it’s been around and how much it’s been revered herbally and magically. So it just sparks the imagination. And it’s really known for having an affinity with the wise old crone, the Crone woman who has– I see that plant spirit as one that is just kind of like the crone that will give you hints about something and kind of laugh if you don’t get it. So it’s not this warm and fuzzy, helpful energy, so to speak. It’s more like going to help you along your path and push you to your edges and help you get into the sacred space to the point where you can find the magic within yourself instead of getting a handout from a plant, so to speak. That’s how I see the Mugwort. How about you?
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:04:33] Well, that certainly fits in with the connection with Diana, or also Artemis is the same name for the goddess who was a hunter. She was a badass. In mythology, she’s a Greek mythological character. She was the goddess of the hunt, the wilderness of nature, and also oddly, chastity. And when I was looking up the myth a little bit more, I got a little bit more information on that, because in that era, that aspect of chastity was as much as anything, like she refused to marry and be subject to a man and be like a secondary. She’s like, No, we’re not going to do that. I’m going to be doing my own thing over here. So she has that strong feminine quality, which is something about Mugwort and all of these different Mugworts from all around the world that it draws women. We connect with this plant on a deep foundational level.
Rochana Felde: [00:05:37] Absolutely. And the one thing that I found out about Mugwort is it’s considered one of the oldest plants in mythology and in the northern tradition. So there’s a book I have called The Northern Shamanic Herbal by Raven Kaldera, and he talks about The Song of the Nine Sacred Herbs, which is writings from the 10th century or earlier. And it’s basically a poem that talks about these nine herbs in old English. So it’s been translated. And the first one in the poem is Mugwort. So, I’ll just read that one paragraph.
And it says, “Keep in mind, Mugwort, what you made known, What you laid down at the great denouncing. Una, your name is, oldest of herbs, of might against three, and against thirty. Of might against venom and the onflying, of might against the vile foe who fares through the land.”
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:06:52] I mean, there’s certainly, it’s not a sweet pea kind of an herb, right? It’s a powerful herb. It’s not inconsequential and fluttery. What an interesting– I don’t know as much about the herbal uses as you do. I know that you’re very familiar with that, but I’ll just start by describing the plant a little bit because that might be useful if someone listening maybe has never really encountered it, although once you maybe look it up and start to look at some of the images, you’ll realize, oh, it’s all over the place wherever you go. But many of the Mugworts have a very silvery quality to the leaf. They tend to have a little bit of a fuzzy coating to the leaves. They grow in all different kinds of places. They grow in kind of rough territories. They’re not really picky about where they grow. They can tolerate heat and exposure and all that. The leaves tend to have a strongly fragrant, like a pungent quality to them when you would crush them, which is going to be an advantage growing in the wild where rabbits and deer and whatnot don’t tend to eat them.
Also, one other odd little thing is they have little tiny flowers and they’re wind-pollinated. So they have a connection to the air element, which is quite interesting. One other little piece that I wanted to bring in about the plant is that they are a butterfly habitat plant. And in my garden I’m growing an Artemisia, a Japanese species of Artemisia– no sorry, Chinese species of Artemisia. And this spring I was watching little birds taking the leaves, the soft leaves, and lining their nests with them.
Rochana Felde: [00:08:40] That’s going to be a really nice, fragrant-smelling nest. That’s pretty awesome to have seen that. And they are, the leaves are so soft and the smell is so strong. It’s an interesting juxtaposition there with these Artemisias. And I’m growing Artemisia Vulgaris, that’s the European Mugwort, and Artemisia Douglasiana, which is the California Mugwort, and also the California Sagebrush, which is Artemisia Californica. And another one which I’m not sure exactly what it is, but it’s an Asian Mugwort. And they all have the most fantastic smell. To really get Mugwort, I think you have to smell it somehow. And since it grows on every continent on the planet, I mean, it shouldn’t be that hard to find, and it’s very easy to grow.
So we do want to talk about the energetic uses and the flower essence uses. But I’m so excited to just talk about the plant and the scent it has. It really is unique and powerful, and it has this ability to bring on a slightly altered state, not like a hallucinogen, but it’s just that little, slightly altering of your consciousness where all of a sudden, things kind of seem a little bit different. You might see colors in a different way, and that sensory smell of it, it shifts something. And that’s the first way to really meet that plant, is to get that smell. And I just hope that everyone listening who hasn’t met Mugwort will go try to find some Mugwort and get an idea of that.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:10:40] One of the interpretations of this state that you’re referring to is it’s like a dream state. It brings on this sort of softened consciousness that is more numinous and more dreamlike and somehow less linear than the solar world. We’re going into the lunar realm.
Rochana Felde: [00:11:03] Yeah. And that brings up a good point. Mugwort is known– if anyone’s heard of Mugwort, they’ve generally heard of it as an herb to bring dreams or to have a Mugwort herb pillow that you put under your pillow at night for dreams. But I do want to clarify that it’s not necessarily peaceful. It’s not necessarily this nice peaceful sleep. In fact, I’ve heard from more than a couple of people who can’t even have it in their bedroom because their dreams were too intense. So that goes to it’s use of prophecy and divination and having prophetic dreams. So that’s something to have fun experimenting with if it’s something that you want to see if Mugwort can help with that, but also know that if you need a good night’s sleep, maybe, it’s not the night to put Mugwort under your pillow.
[ppp_patron_only level=”2″]Kathleen Aspenns: [00:12:02] That is such a useful distinction for people to know because some things are just like happy, sleepy time, maybe a little lavender or whatever. This is more intense dreaming. That’s cool. Thank you.
Rochana Felde: [00:12:13] Yeah. And I mean, I heard from someone who couldn’t even have it in the bedroom, like, they had to– in the middle of the night. They got up and threw it out of the bedroom because they wanted to get some sleep. So that’s a funny story to think about. I haven’t had that experience with it, but you never know.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:12:36] I think there is a polarizing aspect to Mugwort, that some people really love it and some people are kind of on the other side of the fence. And I’ve been a little more familiar with it through like the FES makes an oil, an infused oil called Mugwort Moon Magic. And some people who love that oil love it. But it can take them a little too far outside of their logic centers. And so it’s not always– it’s good in certain circumstances, but maybe not a daily use kind of a thing.
Rochana Felde: [00:13:11] Yeah. The main action of that herbal oil and the herbal use, it has an affinity for the female system and it can really help pull on the menses. And I’ve had that experience very profoundly, but the overall energetic action is just, it’s moving energy, it’s pulling energy. It’s used for, you can use topically for bruises because it moves the blood, it’s circulatory and it moves that energy and that blood. And so anything that’s stuck or stagnant, that’s where you would apply it, and topically as an oil and I make the oil as well and use it exactly for that on the places of the body where energy feels to get stuck and stagnant. And it’s also very cleansing to the body. So there’s also an affinity with the liver for getting things moving as well. But that topical use with a Mugwort Moon Magic, I believe it’s rubbing on the abdomen and getting things going that way. And so you can– I had an experience when I worked at the herb shop explaining Mugwort’s uses to someone and just talking about it and talking about its action for just this pulling of energy downward through the system. And as I was talking about it, I started my period. So it was pretty intense. It was really pretty funny to have that experience because Mugwort was coming in and just validating what I was saying in this completely physical way. That was so funny.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:15:12] Hello Moon.
Rochana Felde: [00:15:13] Yeah.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:15:15] Wow, amazing. But isn’t that interesting? That does bridge this idea. We were talking about it in its physical state, in its herbal state, and I loved how you were saying that it moves energy. So because just before that I was like, it moves Chi. So, it’s the same thing, different language. That’s what it does, it warms and it moves Chi. But that whole quality of even talking about it could bring its action into your experience. And isn’t that a lot like how essences work, where they are bringing this vibrational quality? You’ve brought it into the room. And so having an essence of this plant isn’t going to give you the same physical effects, but it’s something interrelated. How do you start to look at these differences between maybe using it as an oil and/or also using essences with this plant?
Rochana Felde: [00:16:11] Yeah. Well, using it as an oil, like I said, that moving that stuck energy in the body, so, great for massaging into the body on those specific places. And before getting into essences, just want to mention burning Mugwort is one of the traditional ways of using it. And so burning herbs is in all of the traditions around the world for clearing and purifying spaces, and Mugwort, especially if you have European ancestry, it’s a great alternative to say smudging with American Sage, which is a Native American practice. You can do the same thing with many other herbs for clearing spaces, and Mugwort is a traditional one from various European traditions. It’s called Saining in Irish and there’s another word for it in the Northern Shamanic tradition.
And the way that it works in that purification process, it’s not just purification of the space, it’s a sanctification of the space. And that’s a differentiation that, again, Raven Kaldera makes in his description of Mugwort. So making a real sacred space– and so bringing that around to how it affects our energy internally and how I look also using the flower essence is connecting with your own sacred space and connecting with your own magic, the magic within you. So it’s clearing away that which is blocking that so that you can feel that.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:18:10] Talking about burning Mugwort is certainly bringing to mind the use in Chinese medicine of Moxa, which is a preparation of dried certain herbs and mostly Artemisia Mugwort for the most part. There are many different possibilities, but the basic one is Mugwort. And using Moxa for, once again, you’re using it to move Chi. So you can be using it on sore muscles, on injuries to get the Chi flowing. Anything with the skin is intact, of course. But it’s also used more specifically and from a refined pointed to kind of tonify, to sort of build up the energy of the body while having it move appropriately. So it’s something that is a very important part of Chinese medicine and is used widely for that purpose. So it’s really interesting how different cultures have developed these uses. And it is also used to clear. So, there you go, clearing spaces almost in a smudged kind of fashion.
Rochana Felde: [00:19:20] Yeah. And it doesn’t surprise me for a plant that has been around and used in traditional herbal medicine for so long, it just has such a rich history, the fact that it’s on all the continents and we have these similar uses from all of these traditions, which is wonderful. And it just, I think, reinforces that ethnobotanical use really reinforces, I think, the energy work that these plants do.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:19:53] Agreed. And it’s so interesting as we’re sitting and talking and bringing Mugwort and the Artemisias into the room, I mean, I’m just feeling less focused and more expansive as we’re talking. So trying to keep it all straight. But I would love to talk about some of these as essences and from the different companies. I’m a little bit familiar with the Flower Essence Society’s Mugwort, which is, I believe, the Artemisia douglasiana. It’s a California native, and they have that as one of the essences in their dream kit. And so it is very much about this sort of liminal space between dreaming and sleeping and helping to improve, emphasize, and harmonize our ability to come back and forth between these dreaming-waking states. And one of the things they talk about is this quality of soul development in the dream state, where if you’re just in your normal daily solar life, where you just interact with the world in the normal way, but then you’re missing out on this whole other side of your life by sort of wasting that dream space. I think where some of the Mugwort indications are coming in for that particular essence. Are there any similarities with some of the essences that you’ve made? I can talk about some of the Artemisias or the Wormwoods, but yeah.
Rochana Felde: [00:21:23] Yeah. I don’t use the essences I’ve made that often. I use the European Mugwort more, and that is for people really wanting to get in touch with their sacred side, their magic side, their crone side. And especially now, going through any kind of transitional time in their life and wanting to get that sacred feminine strength, that divine feminine strength through their transition, so it’s definitely a feminine strength herb and one that helps realize your own magic. So if you’re not feeling it, you can’t connect with it, you want to work with it more, that’s one place I would use the European Mugwort flower essence. And I work with it more topically, creating an infused oil as well as using the California Mugwort. And those, to me, they’re bringing some of that ritual energy into self-care. And that could probably crossover with the FES Mugwort Moon Magic. So it’s not just about applying a cream on your skin, it’s making it sort of a ritual, making it sacred. As you’re doing it, infusing– you could do that by putting the flower essence into a cream as well, if you don’t have the infused oil, although you won’t get that scent that the infused oil carries with it as well. But I use it regularly at the back of my neck where energy tends to get stuck and it helps flow that energy down through the body. And I use it in my lower back where energy tends to get stuck. And that’s just helping it move down through the body and out so that it’s not getting stagnant. I don’t remember your question. I don’t know if I answered it.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:23:42] So once again, we are getting into these drifting realms.
Rochana Felde: [00:23:45] Yeah, exactly. I’ve got a whole bunch of Mugwort on my desk right here, and I’m smelling it and getting into that sacred space.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:23:57] Yeah, the energy has definitely entered the room for sure. I’ve brought some Mugwort into my space also, so we are getting the full Mugwort action on both sides. One of the other applications that I was thinking of when you were talking about it, of putting the oil or anointing your body with either the essence or an infused oil, the indication would be that, from the Chinese medicine angle of Moxa, is these situations would be worse with cold. So they’re not situations that are worse with heat. They tend to be sort of, they need the addition of heat. So it’s a type using Moxa as a stick in an indirect manner, you’re adding heat in a certain way that helps the Chi to flow. So that’s really interesting that you find it with the oil, that’s another way of doing that. And maybe like an oil in a hot compress might be a really nice way to sort of kind of add and help get that going. And I know people will put it in their bath also, which sounds awesome.
Rochana Felde: [00:25:04] And in this family, we want to talk a little bit about the Wormwoods, too, which are so similar, but definitely different. Wormwood has a bit of a different energy. And of course, it’s Artemisia absinthium, which is what Absinthe was made from. And you’ve probably heard all the stories of people going crazy from drinking it. And there’s some controversy over what actually caused that. It could have been the high or alcohol content that was indus– like the knockoffs to the good Absinthe was made with industrial alcohol and sometimes heavy metals like copper. And that may have contributed to some of these stories we’ve heard about Van Gogh and others who overdid it with Absinthe. And it does have some toxicity to it, although it’s so bitter. It’s one of the most bitter plants that we have. And it can be used medicinally in bitters, in bitter formulas for very small amounts of time. Some herbalists disagree about using it internally at all, and some think it’s okay in small amounts for short amounts of time. But it again works on the cold digestive system as a bitter, so the cold liver that’s stagnant, it just brings out warmth and that movement and action to the body herbally.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:26:45] And we could also be looking at and kind of trying to shift the focus into the essence use, the essence that I’ve used the most, it’s called a Wormwood, and these are all part of this spectrum of Mugwort’s Artemisias, the Alaskan Essences’ Mountain Wormwood. This is one that I just always remember Jane Bell talking about as being all about the worms of discontent, and what we’re talking about with using this essence of Mountain Wormwood is these places in your body or psyche or emotions where you kind of have tightened down around things, around these resentments or grudges or experiences that you’re just still kind of pissed off about, and that the Mountain Wormwood kind of gets in there and starts it to move and allows you to come to a new place with it, allows you to come to a place of peace with it. So it’s moving cold, stuck energy, right? That’s what it’s doing, but more archetypally.
Rochana Felde: [00:27:57] Yeah, I think that’s interesting. I don’t know what the species of Mountain– I don’t remember what the species of Mountain Wormwood is, and I don’t think I’ve met that plant. But I can see because of its bitter quality, it does work with that bitterness, but by warming things up. It’s always by warming things up.
And the other quality I’ve experienced from the Artemisia absinthium Wormwood is sort of a real mental– there is a real mental effect. And so this is just working with it, working with the plant and feeling the energy from the plant and getting to know it shamanically. I had quite an experience. It was almost hallucinogenic, sitting with the plant and feeling how it would move the energy around me and put me into a different space completely. So I haven’t really researched the Artemisia absinthium flower essence yet. So I’ve made the essence, and I really haven’t begun to use it much. It hasn’t appeared to me, it hasn’t given me its information so much about how it wants to be used. So I find it really interesting that Alaskan Essences works with Mountain Wormwood and has that bitterness principle in its quality, in its energetic uses.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:29:39] It’s interesting because these really aren’t like warm, fuzzy essences. These tend to be kind of intense and for things that aren’t daily issues in that, oh, I just want some more courage, so maybe I’ll be thinking Borage or those sorts of essences where we just have an everyday kind of experience. These ones are shadow stuff. We’re talking about lunar aspects, we’re talking about where we hold things, and how we hold on to things that maybe we shouldn’t, and helping us to move them. So these aren’t always ones that you are going to be working with on a daily basis. They’re going to be something that you’ll be working with situationally and getting to know a little bit better over time.
And this brings my mind to the Artemisia that I’ve made from the Flora of Asia, which is a type of Chinese Artemisia. And my experience of making it and what I’ve used it for are really when my ego had an idea, my ego had a plan in my mind, I don’t want to disparage egos, egos are useful, but whenever I sort of hardened around a plan, or this is the way I was planning for it to go and then it doesn’t, and then it kind of brings out your little two-year-old and you want to throw a temper tantrum and get all pissed off, and just like, err, it didn’t go the way I wanted, the Artemisia kind of helps to soften that and helps you to go with the flow and realize, okay, this is what’s happening and this is a perfectly acceptable outcome and I can live with this. But it helps to soften that part of ourselves that are just so frustrated that our plans have been thwarted.
Rochana Felde: [00:31:41] That makes a lot of sense. And I’ve felt similar with that ego being– it’s interesting that you say that because I have written that in some of my notes about it, about letting go of the ego. And also back to Wormwood and the shadow side, I feel like, yes, definitely the European Mugwort and the Wormwood are helpful in working with the shadow side. And that’s why, yeah, it’s not something that is used all the time and has that warm and fuzzy, but at the same time with Wormwood I’ll say, it’s also been used traditionally for expelling worms. I mean, that’s where it gets its name. And so I always imagine that like the worms of that, some negative thought forms that are stuck, that are lodged, Wormwood, I think, would be an excellent energetic to help move that through the system.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:32:45] Yeah, it’s a visual of where you kind of experience your insides as sort of like crawling with frustrations and crawling with, it doesn’t feel like nice, healthy flow, it doesn’t feel like healthy emotions. It feels like things are stuck and stagnant and icky. And we just need things to kind of move around a little bit.
Can we talk a little bit about the Sagebrushes? I know that you’re familiar with one, a different species. I’m a little familiar with the Sagebrush that the Flower Essence Society makes, which is Artemisia tridentata, and they describe it as being a transformative agent helping to let go of attachments. Once again, we’re talking in the realm of the ego, right, all of the things that we’re expecting. And there’s so many circumstances where life is changing and something’s going away and something is leaving you, and this is very much a fall season kind of scenario or just the time that we’re in now, things are changing, things are going away, and we don’t know what’s happening next, but like some part of us just wants to grip on and never let go. And Sagebrush helps us to start to release that attachment and just accept that opening your hands is really the only way to go here. And whatever’s flowing away from you, you just let it go.
Rochana Felde: [00:34:16] Agreed with that. And also the California Sagebrush that I’ve worked with, it’s very similar. And the strongest energy I’ve felt from that is for transition times, transformation, going through personal transformation, going through those life stages, and letting go of the old to be able to accept the new. And part of that is that letting go of the ego or being stuck on how things used to be, so important for especially women and the transformation our bodies go through when we go through puberty and we get our menses, when we get pregnant, when we go through menopause. Those are the transformational, the personal and physical and spiritual transformation that I really see the Sagebrush being an ally for, and the Mugwort as well, but definitely the Sagebrushes. And just to note, when we say Sagebrush, we’re not talking about sages. So we’re not talking about– it’s different– it’s in the Artemisia family. It’s not in the Sage family, like the common garden Sage or White Sage or any of that kind of Sage.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:35:33] This is the peril of common names. Because you’re not always recognizing that it’s not– it’s in a very different family than something that’s a Salvia. So these are Artemisias, not Salvia, but I think that one of the common names of Sagebrush is it’s kind of like Chaparral, where it’s sort of one of those vague terms that has a strongly pungent scent. But it is such an important essence, really. I know that I was working with a case kind of recently, and so many people are having to sort of– in this particular case, the client was coming to a place with her parents where they were needing more care and they weren’t– she was almost having to switch into the role of being a parent and her siblings weren’t really stepping up to the role. And there was a frustration with that, like, this was changing and she was trying to adapt to it. But it’s also really awkward and weird having to switch into these different roles in life. So it was very much a Sagebrush moment because just wasn’t able to have a parent-child relationship like there had been before. It had changed and morphed over this time, and she was having to step more into that parental role. So once again, it’s changing and transformation, and not all transformations feel great.
[/ppp_patron_only]Rochana Felde: [00:37:01] I think this brings it back around to our original concept for this episode, which was the myth and magic of the Mugworts and the Artemisias. And what is magic? It’s transformation. That’s exactly what it is. So we don’t tend to think of these hard transformations in our life as magic. But if we are working with them consciously, then that’s what they are. And that’s how we can bring magic into our life. We have to work on our own transformation in order to access that.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:37:41] Yeah. And making your life a magic project. And part of that magic is to go with the flow that is life. It’s not all about trying to force it. And this is very much where you get into the lunar versus solar magic. We’re talking lunar magic, we’re talking working with the forces that are, working with the energies and the seasons and the timings, and with that sort of intuitive force of allowing and also directing, but a lot of allowing and that all of these Artemisias help to support that process of growth, transformation in this very organic fashion.
Rochana Felde: [00:38:27] Yeah, I think there’s a certain part of it that is a surrender, a surrendering, and the Artemisias help us do that. That letting go is a form of surrender, and that will help bring in the transformation and the magic.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:38:45] So everyone, please take the opportunity to meet your local, friendly, neighborhood, Mugwort. Go for a hike or go out and see if you can find one growing and get to know it a little bit. And if it’s growing in your garden, maybe you can bring a little bit in and spend some time with it or spend time with it in situ. Or if that’s just not possible, you can always get some Mugwort essences and start to work with them and start to see how you can support your own transformational process and kind of working the magic of your life with Mugwort.
Rochana Felde: [00:39:27] And you can also get some Moxibustion from your local acupuncturist, which is a wonderful experience as well.
Kathleen Aspenns: [00:39:35] Wonderful.
Rochana Felde: [00:39:36] Well, this has been lovely and we will see you next time. Bye.
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Kathleen Aspenns: [00:41:03] This podcast is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. We are not physicians and do not diagnose, prescribe, or treat medical conditions. Please consult with your own physician or healthcare practitioner regarding the suggestions and recommendations made by the hosts and guests of The Flower Essence Podcast.
