FEP85 The Two Sides of Boundaries
Show Notes:
When we hear people talking about boundaries, we’re usually hearing the idea of verbally setting a limit in a relationship – this is important, but misses the foundation.
If we don’t have an energetic boundary, if our sense of self never developed, if our field has been compromised by trauma/abuse, we don’t have a sense of self/not self. Any setting of boundary from this state is unstable, and tends to either be soft or rigid.
Flower essences help change our boundary patterns by establishing a new template for our energetic and emotional fields.
In this episode, Kathleen and Rochana chat about the polarity of boundaries and some key flower essences that can help us come into energetic balance.
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Flower Essences discussed during the show:
Show Transcript
Rochana Felde: Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. We’re so happy that you’re joining us again, or for the first time if you’re new, welcome. Kathleen and I are here today, and our theme is really around boundaries in a way that we haven’t quite talked about them before. And we’ve been having a lot of these conversations about them because she’s in the midst of preparing an upcoming course, and it’s called the Energy Boundary Reset. She’s also going to have a workshop on it on May 30th, so stay tuned for that.
But as we’ve been chatting, we’ve been realizing just how valuable flower essences are in teaching us how to do this because they’re always helping to establish a new template for our energetic and emotional fields. And Kathleen, so you mentioned and talk about the different kinds of boundaries, and even the two sides of boundaries. So, I’m curious to hear more about that and relay to the audience some of what we’ve been talking about.
Kathleen Aspenns: I’m really happy to. It’s a topic that I have definitely needed to learn myself. I’m still learning. I can’t say that I completely have this one solved, but boy, this is really a challenge for a lot of us, and certainly a lot of the people that I work with, is this process of having boundaries, setting boundaries. And when I look at the boundary issue, I can see that there’s this polarity. It’s sort of an inherently polarized concept. Now, if we’re just looking at kind of the way that culture talks about it, if you listen to somebody talking on Insta or whatever about setting boundaries, it’s a very sort of intellectual process, and it’s as if all you need to do is say a certain thing and then maybe repeat it a few times, and then all of a sudden, that boundary is set and life gets easier, or whatever conflict that you have can resolve itself. But I think that, as a practitioner, I’m looking at it from the angle of, like, flower essences help us at the underlayer of that problem. If we look at life as being an intellectual challenge to be solved, then maybe the perfect script could get you to boundaries. But in my work, I realized that underneath it all, the issue is much more one of, “I’m not really sure where I start and end. My energetics are maybe not solid enough.” A lot of us have a trauma history, and if you have that, or if you were raised in a boundaryless environment, you never developed boundaries. You really don’t know where you start and end, and where others start and end. And so, how can you possibly set a boundary if you don’t actually have it in your body, a solid sense of where you stand?
I think that this concept of boundary, it’s one of like a membrane. We can look at it as an auric field, but a membrane, it opens and closes appropriately. We need to be able to let out what we need to let out, and we need to let in what we need to let in, but the rest of the time, we want it to be there and holding us in safety. And the responsiveness is a really important piece to this. And so a boundary that is too soft isn’t useful, isn’t helpful, and a boundary that’s too rigid is also not helpful. So those are a couple of sort of entry-line concepts that I wanted to share with listeners because this is something that I’ve been thinking about a lot and about different essences that can help us to establish some really healthy boundaries.
Rochana Felde: One of the things that you said when we were talking before was about how these rigid boundaries, when they’re too rigid, can be manifestations of a trauma response. And I was like, oh my God, that makes so much sense as soon as I heard that, because I can absolutely see that in my own self and how, especially in terms of, say, a autistic meltdown or neurodivergent overload, and I’ve been learning more about this because of learning about my own neurodivergence, and I can so easily see that pattern, like too much input coming in, but also not having good boundaries around that, and not having good boundaries about managing that, for myself anyway. And then it builds up, it builds up, it builds up, and all of a sudden, it’s like no is a big, loud word, and it gets a little intense, and it becomes very rigid for a while until it settles back down.
And this might be a pattern that goes back and forth. So, when you’re talking about that membrane, I mean, obviously every situation is going to require a different type of boundary, or maybe the boundary’s in a little bit of a different place depending on who the person is on the other side of that, or what the situation is on the other side of that, but having that sort of flexible boundary or membrane, but the membrane is intact. It’s not disintegrated and letting everything in, and it’s not rigid and kind of just completely closed and not letting anything in, finding that happy medium. And I think that’s where this kind of two sides came in, because flower essences, in so many cases, in all the cases, that’s really how they work. They’re trying to bring us to balance. And so, I love this concept because it really wasn’t quite how I thought about– we are always thinking about boundaries, or at least generally in my practice, it’s people who just don’t have enough boundaries, and the work is always on creating better boundaries, but thinking about that membrane and the other side of the coin is really interesting, and I can see that in other scenarios as well.
Kathleen Aspenns: Yeah, there are a number of models of boundaries, and so I’ll just start by explaining that these models that we’re discussing, we’re kind of modifying. I’ve been looking at the work of Nina Brown, who is a psychologist and author, has a book called Children of the Self-Absorbed, which is probably pretty appropriate for a number of people that might be listening, a lot of very interesting books on the concept of boundaries. And she kind of sets boundaries up as there being four different types. One is soft, one is spongy, and then there’s rigid and then flexible. And flexible is the ideal boundary.
And for the sake of our conversation, I tend to look at boundaries being kind of either soft and that kind of encompasses that spongy department, or rigid. So somebody with a soft boundary would be somebody who isn’t really able to say no. And what we might do is we might talk about these in the more extreme cases or sort of caricatures almost, but oftentimes, we can kind of see these patterns in ourselves in being, in one place in my life, I’m not able to do this; In another place, I’m doing it in a different way.
And so, all of us are myriads, and we all have work that we can do to refine our expression and refine our boundaries. But in the stereotypical case of a soft boundary, we’re looking at somebody who’s essentially a Centaury personality, the doormat, somebody who just always is doing for other people, never has any needs of their own, never sets a line ever, ever, ever. You’ll never hear no out of their voice. And that’s clearly, I think, an exaggeration of a soft boundary type, which is almost like not having any boundaries at all. And people don’t really even notice them. It’s hard to be in those shoes. And a lot of us, certainly for those of us women, we’ve kind of been taught that that’s the ideal, right? I mean, that’s like the best woman ever is the person who’s just, “Oh, she was always there for everybody. She always took care of everybody. She was just wonderful.” And that maybe serves other people really well, but that certainly doesn’t serve you well, didn’t serve me well.
And Centaury is really helpful for helping you to realize, gosh, maybe I’m a valuable person enough to have some boundaries. Maybe I’m valuable for somebody to do something for me. And when we’ve never learned that we are worthy or valuable enough for energy to come our way, that’s when we get in those very, very soft boundaries, and we tend to be the servant and not anyone who can receive anything. Centaury is such an important essence for so many in my practice, and it tends to sort of find its way into a lot of formulas.
Rochana Felde: Absolutely. And what you’re saying is somebody might not really even seem like that quote-unquote doormat archetype when we’re talking about this, but there are so many subtle, insidious ways that women, especially mothers, have been put into roles designed to support the patriarchy, and there’s so many little things that illustrate exactly what you’re saying, with that person not ever putting their needs first. And even if they didn’t start out with that in their personality over time, perhaps in a marriage, and always putting like, the life evolves around the husband or the children or other people who they’re caretaking, and over time, it just erodes and erodes the sense of self. So by the time somebody maybe doesn’t have those responsibilities anymore, or is trying to do something different with their life, or just kind of waking up to that fact, they don’t know who they are. They don’t know who they are and what they want. And that’s the place to start. And so, yeah, the Centaury Bach Flower Essence is a really critical flower essence for that. And I definitely agree that would be that recognition of what’s been happening and that you’re a person that deserves your own importance is so important.
Kathleen Aspenns: Truth. This whole thing of, “Oh, she was so wonderful. She never asked for anything from anybody. She was always there for everyone,” I mean, that’s a eulogy, people. That’s something they say about you when you’re dead. It’s just heartbreaking because that was my mom. That was the model that I learned. I watched that, and I literally heard that from everybody at her funeral. It was just like, that was who she was. And who really knew what she wanted? It was very obscured.
And what I also didn’t really realize growing up is how much that pattern feeds a sense of anxiety and stress because you can never do enough. You can absolutely never be so selfless and serve everyone because there’s always going to be more needs. They’re always going to dump more on you. And if you never set a boundary, you end up with this state of ongoing anxiety. I found this amazing quote from a psychologist from the Mayo Clinic, Rich Oswald. He says, “Anxiety and stress develop when you take responsibility for others’ emotions, behaviors, and thoughts. Many anxieties people experience are due to poor boundaries.” And when I started to recognize that distinction, that the lack of boundaries is a stressor and builds a sense of anxiety, I mean, that’s a real game-changer for me because people come to me all the time with, I feel anxious all the time, and I’m with them. I grew up that way. My mother modeled it for me. But to start to recognize that that anxiety that we walk through the world with has a really significant connection to our inability to have a boundary; We don’t know how to set a boundary. We don’t even have one. How can we set a boundary if we don’t have one? But building up this sense of self, building up this sense of strength, with essences like Centaury helps you start to set boundaries, and you’re no longer having to manage everybody else’s stuff. It’s a real relief.
Rochana Felde: Yeah, there’s a real crossover, too, with people who are looking for protection or protection essences. And so, I see that when that’s a big theme, because of this fear, this anxiety that something’s coming at you that you can’t control, I think it’s also because there’s an underlying boundary thing that can possibly be at play there. And it’s interesting because a lot of the essences for boundaries, there’s a big crossover with protection and protection essences. So that also is a– what you’re talking about with anxiety, just that feeling that you don’t have protection, and it might be completely subconscious, but there’s a feeling of vulnerability that I see there.
Kathleen Aspenns: Well, because you are vulnerable. If you don’t have a field surrounding you, if you don’t have a solid grounding, you are vulnerable. I mean, these trauma responses, when we’ve been overwhelmed, when we’ve had traumatic experiences, our field does get shattered, and we leak energy everywhere. And it’s kind of like when you’re wounded, forces that are not healthy forces, get attracted to that. And I don’t know, that’s just what happens. And helping yourself to seal up your field and develop that really strong– it’s that boundary, that field around us, where we know where we begin and end.
And there’s really no better essence family to look at than the Yarrows. We have many different colors, varieties in our repertory, but just starting with Yarrow, just starting with good old-fashioned White Yarrow as an essence to help to rebuild that field. I don’t want to repeat myself too much, but it’s so, so common that we have chunks of ourself that are missing. We have a field that’s not intact. It’s really normal when there’s been a shocking or terrifying experience that we leave our bodies for a period of time. And when that happens, the field gets a level of rupture, and it needs to kind of come back together, and ourself, our spirit needs to come back into our body, and then the field can repair. But so often, we’ve spent so much of our lives a lot out of our bodies, a lot out of our fields. And it’s a little bit like if you’re driving, but most of you is out of the sunroof, it’s going to be really hard to reach those pedals. It’s really hard to run your life when you’re not really in your body, when you’re not in yourself. And the essences kind of help you come back in safely and start to re-weave that field so that, “Oh okay, yeah, I’m solid here, I’m okay, and I’m not attracting things that I don’t want to attract.”
Rochana Felde: Yeah, and that’s a real thing. I mean, the perfect example is the narcissist-empath thing, where whether the narcissist or the person with narcissistic tendencies, is conscious or not of this energetic pull, you can observe it. When they walk into a room, they’re going to gravitate just automatically to the person with the least amount of boundaries, and that’s usually the empath. And so, it’s a very common pattern that is talked about all over therapy circles and in so many ways. And I think that really shows the energy dynamics. And of course, yes, if you don’t have that field built or that field in place and those boundaries in place energetically, you are absolutely vulnerable to outside forces, including other people. The Yarrows and the Pink Yarrow for the real empathic people who are taking on everybody’s emotions are so key for that.
Another one that I haven’t used a whole lot, but I really love is the Lavender Yarrow from Alaskan, which is a little bit more around spiritual boundaries. And for those of us who are spiritual, who have a lot of maybe we’re open to a lot of spiritual information coming in, we really actually need to set boundaries for that too, because it’s too much for us, and we have to stay grounded. Exactly what you’re saying. If your head’s out the sunroof, you can’t reach the pedals in that sense. So, if you have access to that flower essence, I think it’s a really interesting one that I see being used more and more, as I do believe our consciousness collectively is raising on this planet. I think more and more people are being open to these energetics and spiritual, or for lack of a better word, just a raise in consciousness, of ourselves and collectively our humanity here on Earth at this time. And so, that can be very exhausting to go through, especially if we don’t know how to manage that. And Lavender Yarrow could be a key essence for that in the future and now.
Kathleen Aspenns: Absolutely. And it’s like we have this need for greater discernment because there’s so much information coming at us all the time. Wherever it’s coming from, it doesn’t really matter because there’s just tons of it all the time. And the more that we are operating kind of from our neck up, the more that we are just functioning in the world, able to talk and interact with other people, but when we’re not really in ourselves, when we’re not in our hearts, when we’re not inhabiting our hearts, when it’s too painful to inhabit our hearts, when it’s too painful to inhabit our gut because when our system has been trying to tell us something all these times, and that anxiety rises, it’s trying to tell us something like, this is not healthy for you, we try to make that be quiet and go away because we don’t know what to do about it. We weren’t able to do anything about it when those patterns developed, and we haven’t yet learned how to feel things, how to be in the body, and like, “Oh wow, I’m feeling something. What is this trying to tell me? Should I be leaving the room? Should I be setting a boundary with this person?”
But that quality of discernment, because so much information comes through, and when we’re empaths, we don’t really have a good filter. It comes to that membrane concept again. We don’t have that filter in place where we can really sense what’s true and what isn’t. I would bring up one of your favorites, Queen Anne’s Lace, for this because it has that solid root. It puts a lot of energy into that root. It’s very solid, but yet, it has this ability to filter. It has this ability to filter information coming in from other sources. And whether that’s like a channeled source of information, whether it’s a spiritual guide, whether they’re in body or not, whatever, we still need to filter that information and go, “Is that true for me?” Because a lot of information can just be kind of generated. The world is sort of like this random generator right now, and there’s a lot of information that comes through that’s maybe not really relevant, maybe not true for you, but how do you know that? How do you feel that in your body? You have to be in your body to really feel that and get a true no and yes.
Rochana Felde: Yeah, the grounding is so important, and a big part of that is just somatic work in general, because even knowing what our body is telling us, if we’re in our head all the time, it’s hard to have even the proprioception around– or the interoception, I guess, really, because it’s like, how do things feel inside your body? And for me, that’s always been a challenge. And a manifestation of that is it’s like not hearing it, and your body has to keep getting louder and louder with the pain or the hunger or whatever it is until you hear it and respond to it, and that can lead to health challenges, so it is a crucial thing to be embodied, as part of this work. And I think that is probably a very common crossover. The grounding and the boundaries usually sort of go together in that work, don’t you think?
Kathleen Aspenns: I would really agree that, and I think I can bridge this into this. When you first start learning about boundaries and working with boundaries, when you realize that, oh gosh, is that why I feel the way I feel all the time? Do I feel exhausted, burnt out, anxious, but I want to be a nice person. I want to be a decent human being. And if I’ve only ever seen the dark side of boundaries, what we might see as the dark side, and these are just polarities and expressions, are somebody who’s using boundaries to keep other people out and maybe even to harm them, to be unkind, to be cruel even. I mean, we’ve seen stuff like that, and maybe we’ve done it too. And finding that level of kindness in ourselves, if we’ve done that, if we’ve been harsh, if we’ve yelled at somebody, like you were saying, when our boundaries get crossed so much, and our bodies have to scream in order to get our attention, sometimes we let that out, and that’s maybe not very skillful, but that’s part of the process and that just happens.
And so, the polarity, let’s say, of a soft boundary is a rigid boundary. And a rigid boundary pushes away. A rigid boundary keeps everyone and everything out. And there might be times where that’s just perfect in that moment, but as a lifestyle, it’s just as unhealthy as not having a boundary or having too soft of a boundary because it’s very isolating in there. People can’t get in either. You don’t have a space for love and connection, and as much as anything, the usefulness of friendship and partnership and connection. We don’t do everything all by ourselves. We are here to interact with other people and interact with other ideas, have conversations and help each other, be there for each other. Community is a really important part of mental health. Being lonely, being apart from everyone, is not good for mental health either. So learning how to set a boundary that’s a responsive boundary, not a rigid boundary, is also a really beautiful thing that our essences can help us with, can help us with that underlying terror of being overwhelmed, but helping us get stronger in our fields and be able to go, “Oh, I can open for this person. This person’s good people. I want to hang out with them a little bit.”
Rochana Felde: Yeah, I’d love to explore a little more about those rigid boundaries, how we see them, and the flower essences that might be helpful for that. And I mean, Rock Water comes to mind as one that is useful when somebody is so rigid about everything in their life. Their schedule has no room for adjustment. Perhaps it manifests in their diet, their lifestyle. Everything is very regimented, and there’s no room for any kind of relaxation. And it’s very stressful. It’s very stressful to live life that way because life happens, and not a pleasant way to exist when it’s in that kind of extreme state. And so, Rock Water can help one to be better able to go with the flow, so obviously not going with the flow to the point where the boundaries become amorphous and dissolve, but to relax a little bit, to be able to adjust to changing situations and to let people in, because how can you connect with others if it’s 100% on your terms all the time?
Kathleen Aspenns: It’s a journey, isn’t it? When you can see that a rigid boundary is a trauma response, when you can really hold space for that, of someone needing to do that is because they’re terrified of being obliterated, annihilated. It’s very intense when somebody has to put up a boundary like that. It’s not pleasant to have that projected on, but it’s also really not pleasant to do that because it’s very isolating, and people tend to avoid. It’s kind of a funny thing. Certainly, obviously, the way I was raised, the good person is the person who essentially has no boundary. It’s like the one who’s always giving, who’d give the shirt off their back. I mean, there’s a boundary that probably doesn’t serve you very well, but there’s this nobility to it. There’s this superiority, “Oh, you’re a more spiritual person.”
And in my spiritual journey, I certainly leaned into that because that’s what I knew how to do. And I’m like, yeah, right, that’s true. Being super spiritual means that this is the sort of person you are. And I would never do that. Being angry is a low vibration. It’s a bad emotion, and yet, anger is really a valuable tool. It’s a valuable emotion because it helps us set a boundary, and it’s not about using it badly. It’s not about using it unkindly. It is about just knowing where we stop and where others start, and being able to set that line of, “No, you can’t have the shirt off my back. No, you can’t walk over me. No, you can’t come in and just take whatever you want. Oh, that’s not okay. This is me.”
And so, this process of learning to work with these boundaries, whether they’re soft or rigid, it’s a flex and a flow. We’re learning how to work with them. It’s so important. I think what I was getting at with that spiritual aspect is that if you look at some of the way that Dr. Bach wrote about some of these essences, they’re described in some really unpleasant terms and some really harsh terms. We could look at maybe Vine, somebody who’s domineering and bossy, and yet that’s just a rigid boundary. That’s just trying to control other people with your boundary of, this is the way things are done. And what if we could see that as being somebody who doesn’t really feel secure in themselves and doesn’t really feel solid in themselves? And the Vine can help them express themselves better. It can help them interact with others better to create connection, because that’s what they’re trying to do is they’re just trying to make everybody do the thing that they’re supposed to do. Instead, if they can accept other people for being who they are, they can accept themselves for being who they are, too. And it creates a much more harmonious community experience.
Rochana Felde: Yeah, that’s really interesting, thinking about the trauma response in really all of these, and especially for the rigid boundaries. I mean, it makes perfect sense in the case of abuse that after a violation, there’s a real fear that it could happen again. And that’s the only way known to protect oneself. It’s absolutely understandable when these rigid boundaries manifest. They’re here for a reason, and they’re protecting you. And so, there’s so many other parts of it that have to be looked at to make sure the person’s safe, to keep the person safe, to help repair the damage in order to move on.
Kathleen Aspenns: Yeah, exactly. My heart just goes out to somebody who expresses the boundary in a rigid way. I’m very comfortable working with people who have those because I know where it’s coming from. It’s like I know that it’s coming from a way of protecting that child part, usually, who was overwhelmed and who had no agency. And so, a protector has to come in and sets a really strong, rigid boundary. And a lot of times people who have those, have a lot of self-judgment about it because they feel like they shouldn’t– there’s an internal tension around it. There’s like, I’m a bad person for having these feelings, or I’m a bad person for reacting this way. And when it is in that realm of reaction, that’s really where the essences can come in and soften and can start to help rebuild, like you were saying, Ro, help rebuild that sense of self, help rebuild that experience of being traumatized, of being overwhelmed, of being abused, and helping to support that recovery process, and then developing more skillful expressions of boundaries.
And that’s really what happens is that when we can heal that child part, when we’re there to support that child part, then it integrates within us, and our adult parts get a little more air gap. We’re able to bring in more wisdom. We’re able to see something for what it is. Not every reaction of a rigid boundary is appropriate in the moment. It feels appropriate from the inside, in the same way that other types of traumatic responses, the body is saying, we got to do this thing, and yet, when we are healing, we’re able to start to step back from that, go for just a second, like, “Wait a minute, maybe what’s happening isn’t what I’m responding to. Maybe there’s something else going on.” And being able to rebuild that sense of self, heal that wounded child, take care of that wounded child, gives you a little bit more space to be able to go, oh, I can set this boundary more gently. I can set it more skillfully. It’s not a big, loud reaction. Maybe it can just be half a step back and saying, “Hey, hey, hey, uh-uh.”
Poison Oak is one of my favorite flower essences because it really does speak to this. Even the name is wonderful because it’s not poisonous. It makes a really gnarly rash. Some people are very, very sensitive to it, so sympathies to you if you are. But it is for those people who tend to have a really rigid personal boundary and feel like they really need to defend it. And there’s this kind of constant alert and alarm about having their boundaries violated or being kind of run over, and they tend to push people back. They tend to push people away because of that sense of internal struggle, internal stress of feeling like you’re about to get run over. Full sympathies. I love Poison Oak for helping you to start to learn to dance with that a little bit more and heal that part that feels so vulnerable that responds that way. Instead, it can be like, “Oh, this is my opportunity for connection. I have the potential to manage a relationship rather than just yelling no.” I can say, “That doesn’t work for me. I want to do it a little differently. Oh, the other person sees it, and they can respond accordingly.” It’s the dance we do together.
Rochana Felde: I love Poison Oak. It’s such an intriguing plant. I think it really speaks to both that fear of violation. And also, if you think about Poison Oak, even for people who aren’t sensitive to it, who say, oh yeah, I don’t react to Poison Oak, if they keep exposing themselves to it over time, eventually they will develop that allergy, that skin irritation. So, some people get it right away, and some people cavalierly, oh, the Poison Oak doesn’t affect me. If they keep touching it or doing yard work and pulling it out with their bare hands season over season, they’re going to, at some point, develop, usually, that’s what I’ve been told. And so, I think that’s kind of interesting in this conversation because we’re talking about how when a boundary is breached over and over again, and then there’s an overreaction, right? And it’s illustrating that to me. So, I think it has this character of, it’s almost this irony, and this character of both sides of that coin because it’s helping with the protection, but it’s also helping you to soften.
Kathleen Aspenns: Thanks for sharing your Poison Oak love. I do, too, love it, yeah, from a little bit of a distance, right, because that’s appropriate. It has good boundaries, and so we respect the boundaries of the Poison Oak.
Yeah, it’s such an interesting topic. I think we could go on and on and on, but perhaps that’s a good amount for today. I really appreciate all of you for listening, because this is obviously a topic that’s near and dear to my heart, being one that’s been the survival strategy for me for my life, and learning how to work with these things, learning how to connect my anxiety to my challenges with setting boundaries. Oh wow, yeah, that’s a thing.
So, I hope that if you’re interested, you’ll check it out. I’ll be teaching the course of the Energy Boundary Reset coming up soon, and hopefully, you’ll join our email list and maybe come to the workshop and see what happens, because I’m going to be showing you five steps towards working towards this because it doesn’t happen all at once. It’s not an intellectual process. It is an internal rebuilding of your boundaries so that you can then feel more solid and safe in yourself and be able to, maybe not easily, but getting better at setting boundaries. It’s something that will really improve your life.
Rochana Felde: And the workshop is called Reclaim Your Energy, and that’s the part we didn’t talk about too much with how much it frees up energy when this work is done. And it’s just a huge part of it, how we don’t realize our energy is drained every day from not having the structure around us, this energetic boundary around us that we can rely on and stop having to worry about, have anxiety about, whether conscious or unconscious, how much that drains our energy. So, I’m really excited for the workshop, as well as the full course.
Kathleen Aspenns: Well, I’m glad that we had an opportunity to hang out a little bit and chat about this topic because, boy, if there’s anything underlying a lot of the things that people come to essences for, I think that it’s boundaries.
