Show Notes:

Kathleen and Rochana explore what it means to maintain heart-centered courage in the face of extended adversity — notably during the pandemic and natural disasters related to climate change. Collectively we are all dealing with disconnection and the grief of what has been lost, and we need strength for what we are still going through during this time of uncertainty. Flower essences can help us stay present, connected, and embodied while nurturing our heart and helping us cultivate compassion for ourselves and others. 

Audio:

Video:

Flower Essences discussed during the show:

• Redwood – FES Range of Light, Wiseflower
• White Michelia – Flora of Asia
• Red Rose – Wiseflower
• Blackberry – FES
• Shillong Rose – Flora of Asia
• Borage – FES
• Hound’s Tongue – FES
• Lotus – FES
• Yerba Santa – FES
• Smoky Quartz – Alaskan
• Soul Support – Alaskan

Resources

Thich Nhat Hahn  

• Practice Center: Plum Village

• Books: Parallax Press

Show Transcript

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:00:39] Hey, flower lovers. It’s good to be with you again. Ro and I have been reflecting on, meditating on our next topic, and we wanted to share some ideas that we’ve been coming up with on the topic of courageous hearts. This has been a really challenging few years and a lot of us are feeling it. And we’re feeling that we’ve lost a lot, a lot of things have changed and changed forever. And what do we do with that? And how do we go on? How do we choose to make that courageous choice to keep our hearts open, to keep connections, to really do that internal work of staying present, of being around a lot of reactivity and a lot of grief and a lot of anger. And how do we navigate all of this? And that’s our topic today, and it’s really nice to be here with you again, Ro. Let’s dig in, shall we?

Rochana Felde: [00:01:45] Yeah, yeah. I feel like it’s been a time of falling away where we’ve been like–  everyone on this planet has been affected by the pandemic. I mean, nobody, regardless of your beliefs or personal experience, the fact is, is that directly or indirectly, no one has been left untouched by the pandemic of the last couple of years. And on top of that, we are having more and more environmental disasters because of climate change, so there’s a deep grief there. And also another set of circumstances that have caused many people on the planet, stress, anxiety, fear, and we’re just left in this wake of destruction, it feels like, all of these layers peeling off.  And then a whole other aspect is the kind of social evolution that we’ve been going through with cancel culture and so many people that we may have formally learned from, looked up to, celebrities, that information comes out and they’re not who you thought they were. So many people have questioned their beliefs on politics, religion, spirituality, and changed their beliefs over this last period of time. So we’re really in this just transitional place, and it’s kind of, I feel like, collectively, it’s leaving us feeling like, where do we go–? Where do we go next? What do we do now? We’re just kind of stripped bare of everything and how do we emerge from this?

And one of the things that I keep hearing when I communicate with, like the Redwoods, some of my plant allies, and the way that I’ve been feeling is that we just have to find ways to come together and be in community. It’s learning to speak to each other again, regardless of our belief systems, because we’re going to need to help each other. We really need to help each other to survive, that’s kind of it. So that’s where I’m at and that need for having that courage, heart-centered courage and compassion as we go forward seems to be the strongest thing that we really need right now.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:04:56] The aspect of how hot the cultural temperature is, you were mentioning cancel culture – and you see that a lot on social media, absolutely brings the temperature up. You see people reacting and they’re basically shouting at each other. And a lot of these relationships can come unmoored because of this disconnection. If you’re in social media time, like Twitter is classic for this, where people are just shooting their mouths off, and you lose that connection that you’re actually speaking to a human being, and you’re more in your own head, and your own head just starts to feed and spiral, and you just get angrier and more frustrated, and you forget that this is another human being that you’re talking to. And I think in part, this experience of being more isolated from usual people that we interact with has amplified this tendency and being constrained in many ways, both for taking care of our communities and for taking care of our own health and all that, we’re in these restrictions. And so that’s going to make us more frustrated and more angry as well. And then, we’re in a pressure cooker with our families and our loved ones. We really want a break, but we are all stuck together, right? So it’s really amplifying a lot of these challenges that I know that we’re both experiencing and everyone we talk to is experiencing.

Rochana Felde: [00:06:49] Yeah, and it’s given people social anxiety that didn’t used to have social anxiety. So that’s kind of breaking new ground for a lot of people that are surprised that it’s happening to them when they never had that before. And I think people are wondering where they belong. We’ve just been isolated and on so many levels, it sort of leaves us to– and with everything that’s fallen away, it leaves us to wonder, who are my people? How do I reconnect? Who do I reconnect with? How do I reconnect? So there is all of that is part of getting– and it’s not even just like a physical thing, you know, it’s like, Oh, things are opening up, let’s go out here, here. That’s not really what I’m saying. I’m talking about the sort of emotional spiritual level of connection where in order to go through what we’ve gone through in the past two years, we have emotionally also cut ourselves off. We’ve had to, right, in order to survive. So now it is opening that back up, that part of ourselves back up again.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:08:13] For me, it’s a little bit like any kind of a post-traumatic scenario that we have these really strong parts who can step in and get day-to-day business done. These are the parts who got creative and pivoted and did all the things that had to be done. And then, when things get more stable again, when you start to see light at the end of the tunnel, when you start to feel more supported by whatever, that’s when everything has to come up to be processed. And so, so often, and I have these conversations with clients, that once the crisis is over, that’s when the emotional stuff really emerges and they think, but everything is so much better now. Why am I feeling so bad? It’s like, well, yeah, now you are strong enough. Now you are resourced enough that you can deal with this. It’s ready to come forward.

Rochana Felde: [00:09:20] Yeah. What a time, what a time we are in. And some of my learnings from this, this whole concept of community have more to do with the small forest town that I live in and the extreme fire threats and evacuations that we’ve had over the last couple of years. And now, what this town has been doing to make it more fire-safe and to help our communications because we frequently lose power or any access to communications, and so there’s been a group of us that have gotten involved in amateur radio. And I have my little amateur radio. So I’m interacting with people for this purpose that I would have not normally ever interacted with, and I feel like this process of working within your community, and I think all the people who’ve already maybe moved away and started to homestead or tried to become more self-sufficient over the pandemic, they’re probably realizing this too. But you can’t really do it on your own. You can’t survive by yourself on your own. You really need to have a community. So we have a couple of different kinds of communities. We have our Soul Tribe type people, which is all of our flower essence people here. This is one kind of community. And we have our family and our close friends. But then there’s that broader sort of humanity community and that I feel like it starts at home. It starts locally, right? It starts near you. And working on building that helps– it helps to widen the perspective that I think would help the whole planet, like it would just help the whole world. That’s how we start to come together. And that is a message that I’ve just heard repeated by the mighty Coastal Redwood that I had an attunement with yesterday. And the story is, the understory, it’s what is in the ground, it’s under our feet, it’s how we connect through our roots. And it was a really powerful message, and I feel like– I don’t know if that makes sense, but I feel it kind of brings all together this concept of how we move forward, we move forward together, and not saying that in some new-agey platitude way. It’s like a really grounded, rooted survival way.

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Kathleen Aspenns: [00:12:22] Well, Redwoods, they have a beautiful community. They don’t grow alone. They’re not pioneer species that bring other ones. They have these circles and these formations, and they grow in groups. So they have that quality of bringing a group together. So, yeah, Redwood is, I know it’s a really strong ally for you, and I’ve always felt a real great affinity for Redwoods as well. They have a wonderful ancient wisdom that they have been through a lot of these cycles. They’ve been through a lot together, so they can teach us a lot about how to deal with adversity.

Rochana Felde: [00:13:02] That is really kind of my number one right now. I’m using it in so many formulas, formulas that help ground, formulas that help belonging, formulas that help with communication. It’s very multifaceted. Formulas with resilience. The Redwood has all of that energy to it. But I think, yeah, at the end of the day, it helps us to connect to the Earth and to each other through the Earth. So that’s sort of my current favorite right now.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:13:36] Yeah, it certainly comes up in my formulas quite a bit. On this same topic or on the same line of thinking, the White Michelia comes to my mind, which is one of my Flora of Asia essences, and it has this quality– it is a Magnolia, so it has that same ancient quality of– the Magnolias are 100 million years old, so they’ve seen a few things. But it has this quality of openhearted compassion where you can be in communication, when you can be in connection with others. We tend to close down and to get reactive and other people are often very reactive too. And White Michelia helps us to overcome that reactivity and start to actually see what that person is about and find common ground and find an ability to communicate in the level that can be accepted because it’s really, meeting reactivity with reactivity is very rarely useful. It’s much more useful to start to see, okay, what can we do to sort of walk around that a little bit or find something that we can talk about and move things forward?

Rochana Felde: [00:14:54] Yeah, it’s such a beautiful flower. And I think we can’t really not talk about heart-centeredness without talking about Rose, the quintessential flower for compassion and opening the heart and some call Christ Consciousness. And I remember making an essence with Red Rose and just feeling it was like– I felt like there was a laser beam that just came from the flower right into my heart, just kind of science-fiction-like. It was a really potent experience that I had. And at that moment, everything-just the compassion I felt for humanity was almost overwhelming. So, any of the roses, I think, but really, I like the Red Roses a lot for this, for that real heart-opening compassion. What about you? We’ve talked about so many different kinds of roses over the podcast.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:16:04] Well, isn’t that cool? The Rose family is so diverse, not only are we talking rosa/roses, but the Rosacea is a vast family that includes things like Pears and Apples and Cotoneasters, and I don’t know, many other plants, blackberries. Now, Blackberry is an appropriate essence for this topic. But when you’re talking about that red quality, it does bring to mind the Shillong Rose. And the Shillong Rose has a white flower, but its stems and thorns are blood-red in the wintertime. They almost have this lacquer red color. And then the hips are this beautiful kind of reddish coral. And so it has this quality of that red life-spirit coming up. The essence is so helpful for perseverance, and it’s like open-hearted perseverance. And I use it a lot for people who are working in studying or trying to accomplish something, anything where you just really have to dig deep because the roses really have that fabulously strong-rooted quality and that will to live. It really helps you find and connect to that earthy, grounded, but just projecting-outwards quality.

Rochana Felde: [00:17:31] Yeah, and the Climbing Roses too, just that real sense of kind of both survival, but also like an ascension of some sort and that Red Climbing rose was the one that I had the experience with. But the thorny part of it, like you were saying, the Blackberry, you know, there is such a survival aspect. It’s just so tenacious and protective. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to get rid of a Blackberry plant, it’s rooted into the ground so strongly. I mean, you just really can’t ever get rid of an invasive Blackberry on your property. Take it from me, I know. But the flower essence quality just brings that tenacity and a real sense of energy for breaking through barriers and motivating to kind of come out of whatever stagnation and get things done.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:18:50] That quality, that exuberant quality that the Blackberry has, it’s matched, what you’re talking about, how the roses, especially the Climbing Roses, have that will to live, that exuberance that overcomes all things. I would definitely say that the wild roses that I make essences from, for the most part, these are essentially Climbing Roses. They are roughly the size of the Volkswagen bus and don’t stand still too long because it’ll eat you. So these are very exuberant, strong growing roses, for the most part. So they’re not– maybe we have these images of these well-tended little rose gardens where roses stay where they’re put, and they only grow three feet high and stay put. But these are not the roses that we’re talking about.

Rochana Felde: [00:19:38] Yeah. The other aspect, the other piece of this, I mean, there’s a couple other parts, but I think dealing with the grief that we’re all feeling is such a big part of this and the grief that we might be holding in our hearts, storing there. There’s just so much, personal grief, environmental grief, with all of the things that we’ve lost and it’s definitely taken its toll, and it’s so collective. I mean, for anyone who’s sensitive or empathic, I mean, I know that this is, it’s a big part of our lives right now because not just what we’re going through, but really feeling at a visceral level what the planet is going through.

And there’s a few flower essences that I think about for this kind of grief. And Borage is one of them that when we talk about having a courageous heart, I really think that Borage just sort of helps to give you the courage to walk through these difficult places with it within your heart, to kind of move through what the fear, really, the fear of what you might be continuing to face as well as the grief of what’s already happened. It’s a good one for, when you’re still in it, when you’re still in the mud of it. And so, yeah, Borage is one that I really like for that.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:21:34] And I think that does bring up a misunderstanding that I think a lot of people feel that if they feel fear, that there’s something wrong, or if they’re feeling uncertain, that there’s something wrong. And courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is, I feel that, I’ve evaluated it, and I’m going to do it anyways. We’re not talking about stupid, no fear, jackass kind of scenario. We’re talking about taking emotional risks or taking the risk to choose to live, to choose to do something with yourself. And it is scary. It is scary to put yourself out there. It is scary to try something new, or if you’ve been isolated, to take an emotional risk to reach out to somebody. Well, what would happen if they reject me or what would happen if they hate me? Well, that’s where courage comes up because it goes, “Well, we’ll see. Let’s do it anyway. Let’s engage the bigger, better part of ourselves to reach out and to see what I can do.” And so often, it works out in a really good way if you take the risk.

Rochana Felde: [00:22:55] Yeah, and one of the common names for it is also Star Flower, which is also used for other plants, but there’s another part of that energy, which I think, of the Borage flower that reminds me of kind of our place in the universe. It’s a little bit more of an esoteric field for that flower, but it helps give us that perspective in order to have the courage to keep on making hard choices, having hard conversations, dealing with uncomfortable things, and it just elevates our awareness, our consciousness, to allow us to maybe see that bigger picture and feel that we are connected, that we are universal. We are part of the stars, we’re from the stars, we came from the stars, and we’ll go back to the stars. And so that part of it to me helps with having the courage to be here on this planet and to be a human being. And every single day, take that next step in our incarnation here and deal with what comes.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:24:26] It’s not for wimps. And that beautiful quality that this plant has is that if you look really close, you get to see these little sparkles, it’s silcaceous. So it has so many of these little light-filled sparkles, and that whole family, this one, I love the quality of how the flowers are all facing downwards. They’re all helping you to come into this experience of being here, of being hurtful, and moving forward in the world. The other member of the Houndstongue is– I don’t know, it keeps coming to mind. It wasn’t one that I had in mind for this topic, but it helps you to overcome these qualities of sort of materialist cynicism. And there’s– for some reason, it just kind of keeps coming to mind as talking about this. And I think that it might be useful in this case for helping us to find that connection to that higher intention even though we’ve been in this experience of density, of hard, difficult, grief-filled, in like, this sucks, but finding that connection to that higher experience and that higher perspective and letting go of some of that cynical framework, I think that’s part of this conversation that we’re having.

Rochana Felde: [00:25:57] Yeah, that’s really interesting. And I think now would be a perfect time to bring Lotus into the mix because there’s the saying, no mud, no lotus, and that is also a book written by Thich Nhat Hanh, who just passed away last week, I think, at 95 years old, and interestingly, this whole last few months, I’ve been doing nothing but listening to Thich Nhat Hanh audio books at night before bed just to kind of get through these times. And it’s been such a comfort to me, his teachings and his wisdom are just so profound and so timely for this moment. So, I absolutely honor him as a teacher. And the Lotus flower, it begins in mud, it grows in mud, and then it reaches the light. And it has this beautiful, illuminated, light-filled, kind of almost, glowing flower. And it’s so multifaceted in its energy. It’s, of course, the most iconic graphic used in millions of wellness logos and yoga, and everybody recognizes the lotus flower. But when you consider the entire plant and the way that it grows in the mud and the murky dark depths and how it emerges and then its giant leaves. And Kathleen, you can talk more about this probably than I can, but it is catching that light and it’s really connecting, I feel like, again, connecting the Earth to heaven and helping us to emerge– to both do the shadow work of looking at what’s in our particular mud and to be at peace with it. It’s really about being at peace in embodiment in this reality.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:28:22] That embodiment quality is so important because so often we think that the ideal is to be so evolved and so spiritual that you’re just like in this nirvana land all the time, and that’s like, that’s fine, that’s great, but that doesn’t actually get the dishes washed and that doesn’t get the kids fed, and that’s like, that’s one state of being, but how do we bring those insights of these great spiritual experiences into our everyday life, into our interactions with loved ones, and the guy down the street, and the neighbor at the community meeting. How do we bring that consciousness into the real world? And you were saying like, Lotus has this incredible, grounded, and also elevated quality where it recognizes– Lotus doesn’t cut that experience of openness and spirituality away from its physicality. It’s in the mud. It’s always in the mud. It’s always going to be there in the mud. And then the leaves come up and they integrate and they reach up above the water and shade the roots, shade the water, and they really have this very broad palm– open-handed circular– I’m riffing on the way that the Lotus leaves come up because they have this beautiful circular pad that the water sheds off of, and they’re always facing the light, stepping up and facing the light. And then the flower emerges from beneath the surface of the water and then opens up so radiantly. It has all of these experiences, all in the same time. And so it teaches us how to hold and walk through life with these fine spiritual ideas, like how to actually integrate them into real everyday life.

Rochana Felde: [00:30:26] Yeah, and I don’t mean to say that the graphics are like a new-age concept. They’ve been around since Egyptian hieroglyphics or even before with the ancient Vedic information. So it’s a popular flower for a reason. From the get-go, it has been recognized as just this essential spiritual being, this Lotus. So, yeah, it’s that way for a reason, and it’s worth absolutely exploring and getting into the layers of it and working with as a flower essence.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:31:16] Yeah. I feel like I really want to address some of the grief aspect as well. There’s an essence I know we both know and love, the Yerba Santa because we have lost a lot. And that’s just what happened. And we have to move through life, but how do we process some of that grief? And I think more and more, we’re going to all start feeling this more acutely. I know you and I have been talking about our internal experiences of feeling a lot of grief over environmental issues, and it’s just been a lot of loss. And the Yerba Santa helps us to keep our lungs open, to keep our ability to breathe and interchange with the world more open. I find it really useful for all the kinds of grief that tend to sort of result in your lungs sort of shutting down, and you have a hard time breathing. It feels so heavy, it feels so dense, it feels so intense, and Yerba Santa gives you the opportunity to exchange and breathe with the world again.

Rochana Felde: [00:32:29] And it helps to move out that stickiness. It’s a deep one, one that I should probably use more of.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:32:41] Yeah, we’re both going through these things, we’re both experiencing these things. We’re not outside of these experiences. We talk to our clients and we work with our communities and we help each other. It doesn’t mean that we’ve figured everything out and that we’re perfect by any stretch. We’re both still in progress, right?

Rochana Felde: [00:33:04] Oh yeah. There’s a piece I don’t want to lose, and that is to really remember to be in your body and stay grounded. And to me, the best one coming up right now for that is Smoky Quartz, so the Smoky Quartz gem elixir, or gem essence, in this case or even just having the actual stone around you, holding the stone, especially for people like me and maybe other fellow sensitives and empaths, or people that just have a hard time staying in their body to begin with, I mean, now is really like, it’s just so, so, so critical, I think, to remember to stay– and to work– like we won’t get through it unless we can get through it with our body. So the way to do that is to remember to be in the body. And the Smoky Quartz helps us remember how to do that or learn how to do that and to kind of help us, protect us, while that’s happening as well. So, yeah, what do you think about that?

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:34:18] No, I agree. It’s interesting that– I hadn’t really been thinking in terms of the gems, but you’re so right that they create that supportive quality of that grounded embodiment. I mean, they’re really good at being grounded, all of the gems. And Smoky Quartz, yeah, it has that ability to transmute the darkness. And that is really what we’re talking about, is finding a way through this darkness to release it, to stay really grounded. It’s not about escaping it. It’s not about bypassing it. It’s about actually processing and going through it, and I think both of us are committed to this path of transmuting rather than bypassing and supporting people in that.

Rochana Felde: [00:35:04] Exactly. I think I had a resistance to even taking Smoky Quartz for the longest time until I actually really sat and attuned with it and made my own essence and really kind of got to that understanding, it wasn’t as scary to me anymore. I don’t know, I always had a little hesitation with it just because I didn’t want to deal with that dark side, I didn’t want to look at it. I wanted to escape it. I’ll be honest, that’s most of my life. That’s what I tried to do. Well, it doesn’t really work. So now, with what I know about that, and knowing that we are in this trauma time, and we already have post-traumatic challenges from everything that’s already happened, but the thing is it’s still happening and we don’t know what’s going to come next. And the way to survive is to, well, we want to stay connected with our root chakra, and Smoky Quartz is another one that would be absolutely strengthening for the root chakra. And remember to stay in our bodies and process what’s going on from our whole being, our emotions, our spirit, and our body. Because if we try to just do it with emotions, or we try to just do it intellectually or we try to just do it spiritually, we’re leaving our body behind, and I think that, because our threats are so physical right now, with the virus, with the fire, these are literally physical first chakra life threats, we are betraying ourselves if we do not protect our body and bring it along with our transformation and leaving it open for whatever.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:37:08] Such a good point. The flowers can really help catalyze these shifts in consciousness and the emotions, and using gems in addition, this is something that Steve Johnson was really important in expressing and explaining in the world of flower essence therapy, of how the gems helped to stabilize these shifts and consciousness in the physical body. So, yeah, totally agree that bringing your body along, so important. Yeah, your body is your friend. It’s your best friend through life. And taking good care of your body is so vital and important.

One of the essences that I’m thinking of– I really want to bring Soul Support and the Fireweed family into this conversation because I’ve certainly been relying on Soul Support a lot through all of this. I give it to my animals when things are intense. I think it’s such a good friend. And one of the essences in Soul Support is the Fireweed, and the Fireweed is so important for transformational experiences. So when you’re having to repattern and heal after something that’s really changed and really been intense, the Fireweed is such a good ally to help just to turn this into a new pattern of health and appropriateness and being the positive side rather than the permanently injured side. Does that make sense?

Rochana Felde: [00:38:44] Yeah, absolutely. And Soul Support, especially the mist with the lavender in it, I ordered extra bottles of that this year, and they really come in handy. Absolutely. I keep it in my car. Just so many instances where I’d found it to be so helpful.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:39:09] And I have Soul Support in stock and offer it for clients because it’s so important– you may have your formula that you’re working with, but it’s so important to have a crisis formula on hand just to keep around because stuff comes up, things are happening, and whether it’s part of what you’re going through, what you’re working with, with your own personal process, or whether it’s an external event that’s happening, being able to support yourself in addition to your formula with some sort of a crisis formula, whether it’s Rescue, whether it’s Soul Support, or any of the others that exist around there. My preference is usually for Soul Support because I just love that stability that it has. It’s just, oh my goodness, it keeps you together when everything’s coming apart.

Rochana Felde: [00:40:01] Yeah, are there any others that we want to bring into the mix?

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:40:04] Oh my goodness, I feel like we’ve really covered a lot of bases here.  I don’t want to, and I never want to, for anyone listening, we don’t want to overwhelm you with long lists of essences because boy, nothing really ever happens when you feel overwhelmed. Then, you just don’t know where to start. But I would really recommend for you, dear listener, to pick one of these essences, pick a few of these essences and see how these essences can support you in this time. because we can talk till we’re blue in the face. And you know what good does that do? Actually helping you get to use and work with these essences, this is the goal of what we do. This is the bottom line is to get you connected to nature in this way and in every way, really.

Rochana Felde: [00:41:02] And to do it with this consciousness, this intention, and being able to observe how it’s working, and what’s shifting in your life and just having that consciousness about it. It’s so common to get another supplement or something that you just– it’s like kind of a drag, okay, I gotta take this with every meal, or you’re just doing it without thinking about it or thinking that it’s just going to be, I’m going to take this and everything is going to change. It has to go with the work, doing that work, being conscious, is the way that I think the flowers, they’re teaching us, these essence, the flowers, the trees, they’re gems, they’re not a drug. They’re not going to overwhelm our body to do something that it wasn’t doing. It’s information. It really is wisdom and a teaching. So to get the most from that, it’s a matter of paying attention to what’s happening and paying attention to that message and to that wisdom.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:42:21] For me, the image of tending your inner garden is what I go to, over and over again, because your garden doesn’t grow overnight and it doesn’t change from a barren landscape or one full of weeds or whatever, into the fabulous garden you might envision in an instant. It’s an organic process, and it’s about every day you go out there and you go, Oh, this weed’s not growing where I want it to. This isn’t quite going the way I want it to. This needs a little tending, oh, this needs a little water. And so it’s a process. Your own development and your own healing is a process, And that’s where the flowers come in so well, because, no, they’re not just one thing that you have to do, and then you’re done with it. It’s something that you’re working with over time, and, oh, this plant is an ally for me and I’m experiencing growth by interacting with the Redwood. It’s not like, Oh, I did that already. It’s continually part of this process of your growth and evolution. And so I think that that’s really what we’re getting at is like, hang in there, the transformation is happening. You’re doing the work.

Rochana Felde: [00:43:29] You mean, it’s not once and done? Oh, come on.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:43:33] No magic wand.

Rochana Felde: [00:43:34] Darn. 

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:43:34] Darn it, so sorry. Yeah. But yeah, so thanks, everyone for being with us, for spending this time with us as we talk about courageous hearts. I know every one of you– I know we both, and every one of you have courageous hearts that could use support and could use help in helping us transform things for the better, helping us create a more harmonious world and a more pleasant place for all of us to evolve and grow and do better, so, thank you.

Rochana Felde: [00:44:08] Yeah. And take care of yourselves and take care of each other. And let’s find a way with each other to get through, and I don’t know, create the new world.

Kathleen Aspenns: [00:44:23] Totally. And please do help us with this work and share this podcast with others that you know could really use this information. It could really benefit from joining the tribe of flower essence lovers. We’re really happy when you share with your friends, and you comment, when you follow us on social, and take part in this conversation because it’s not just about us speaking into the void. We really want this to be a living message and living communication with you all. Take good care.

Rochana Felde: [00:44:57] Bye-bye now.

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Kathleen Aspenns: [00:45:06] This podcast is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. We are not physicians and do not diagnose, prescribe, or treat medical conditions. Please consult with your own physician or healthcare practitioner regarding the suggestions and recommendations made by the hosts and guests of The Flower Essence podcast.